Lotus Notes Email Vs. Microsoft Outlook
Microsoft and IBM both own massive cash cows. Mooo. Microsoft sells Outlook/Exchange. IBM sells Lotus Notes/Domino.
Microsoft and IBM are both developing new non related Enterprise 2.0 stuff.
The point of this survey is not to consider blogs and wiki stuff, but instead, just to simply ask users today which tool they prefer as an email tool.
Please help make this a useful poll by encouraging your friends to submit their vote.
For a proper comparison to Microsoft, your opening should say “IBM sells Lotus Notes/Domino”.
I’ve used both. From the perspective of email, I’m somewhat split as both clients work well. Lotus Notes has a clear strength, however, in its use of message databases that can easily be programmed to build in workflow tasks, like routing a document for approval and revision control. I much prefer it for that reason.
I think it is important to note that you are comparing apples with oranges. Notes Domino is far more than an email system.
regards
D.
The Lotus user interface is a convoluted piece of garbage - and that is putting it kindly. The offline capabilities are excellent, no question, but when comparing email, calendar and contacts (PIM) with Outlook, well, there is no comparison. I often wonder why IBM cannot follow their own UI guidelines on their own product?
I think everyone is missing the point on Outlook vs. Notes. It is all about the user experience, not the geek-speak spewing from the IT-knuckleheads. So things from a Notes user perspective:
Cannot multi-task - try sorting a view in a .NSF file with 100,000 documents and then read your email while the sort finishes (can’t be done). Notes is an application masquerading as an OS.
Notes UI is circa 1995 - in this age of really elegantly done (read clean & simple), the Notes UI is garrish & clunky in comparison
Notes email - basic and subpar in comparison to other free web-based offerings available, despite obvious attempts to the contrary
Notes calendar - not competent; remember not to delete the calendar document or response document or else everything disappears; don’t forget to create your Meeting Reponse folder; if you haven’t accepted the meeting invite, it does not show in the calendar view, so if you are like me and get 100 emails a day you cannot miss one or you miss the meeting, etc, etc.
Litigation Holds - no way to take a Lotus Notes email that is subject to discovery in a lawsuit and offline it/archive it in its native context (message header & body)
Microsoft correctly recognizes that the fight is for convergence of digital communication (limiting this to email is being stuck in 1998) and portability across multiple access mediums. This convergence & portability must be implemented in such a simplistic and elegant manner that users will want (actually demand) to use it. I use Notes everday at work in complete disgust and frustration from the knowledge that there are better ways of working available, and I can only conclude that my CIO has too much IBM stock. I’m not convinced Microsoft will win the competition, but Lotus Notes (IBM) has not figured out there is a competition yet.
Looking at the results so far, I think more Lotus users have visited this page. The question is “email” not anything else. Email-wise, Lotus is a behemoth, and is not windows gui standards compliant. That can be a negative if you use MS Office, requiring you “learn” how to use notes.
I’ve used both, and tried to like notes, but I just can’t!
I work in the IT department of a large law firm that is on Notes. I came from a firm that was on Outlook 2003. I have also taught classes in both Notes & Outlook. Notes has it’s cool database capabilities that are quite good…but it is the absolute worst, user-unfriendly piece of garbage when it comes to e-mail. Both Outlook and web-based e-mail systems are sleek, user friendly, intuitive and logical. Only Notes would sort in ascending order first when sorting on the date field (sure I want to see the oldest stuff at the top…NOT!)and not allow the sorting of Drafts in any way.
I constantly read about how Notes shops always adopt the newer versions better and more completely than do Exchange shops with it’s new releases, and I always read the same comments with every new version of Notes (”oh sure, the UI in Notes 4.5 wasn’t good, but it’ll be great with 5.0″…”well, the UI in 6.5 sucks, but 7.0 is such a winner, gonna blow MS out of the water”) Let’s face it, IBM CANNOT get it right…and their CommonStore application for archiving old e-mails is a complete disaster (I thought MS had the corner on inefficient add-ons, obviously not)
A friend of mine works in a dual environment: Outlook/Exchange for e-mail, calendar etc. and Notes/Domino for internal databases, and he says it’s been great, even though they are looking at 3rd party apps in SharePoint to take-over the Notes functions.
Suffice it to say, I cannot wait to get back to an Outlook/Exchange shop.
Paul –
Why is CommonStore a “complete disaster.” We sell an archiving product for Domino and Exchange. I must always tell people why we are better than CommonStore.
Roger
Blog: http://www.deathbyemail.com
I’ve been using lotus notes for about more than 3 years. It chews up a lot of memory. I want a simple light weight client that could show my mails in a readable format.
I really dislike Lotus Notes. The interface sucks. I work with LN for over a year now, and it’s really an ugly thing to use, not only visually. Also I think it’s very buggy (search, sort, order of folders, unread/read mails…). And please, stick to some Windows standards. Being IBM is no reason to screw known userfriendly standards.
Crap! When connection was lost, I have to reboot my laptop before I can run Notes again.
Outlook is ALSO far more than an email system. Using Outlook you can drag mails and tasks straight to the calendar (converted to an appointment automatically). You can add notes and activate a tracking journal. You can open and compare calendars of groups. You can automate the revision of a document, … And it’s all far more userfriendly.
There’s only one thing Outlook doesn’t contain: document databases. And IBM’s solution for this is silly: no windows files, but content in a database record. When I try to store a Word document in LN… well… lol - what’s the point? I have to copy/paste the content into a new LN document. Therefore I think Notes isn’t compatible with Windows.
That’s why you should try MS Sharepoint, nicely integrated with MS Office. Now, that’s heaven! Really.
Notes is absolutely unfriendly from a email user perspective. I haven’t tried its database capabilites… who cares ..
All I need is a neat and user friendly UI to send and recieve emails.
Just want to know how I can use Outlook to connect to this notus lotes thing !!
Full disclosure: I’ve been at various times since 1993 a Lotus Notes mail and applications user, developer, administrator, trainer, integrator, and migrator (to Outlook and Sharepoint). With that said, a few observations.
1. First off, the new Notes client (and mail in particular) does look and work much better than previous versions. In the current version 7 (and in the new public beta for version 8) it becomes a much closer contest between Notes mail and Outlook mail.
2. Notes mail tends to suffers by comparison to Outlook because Notes is an application platform, and Notes Mail is “just another Notes application” that happens to be dedicated to email. Outlook is the best mail client Microsoft can build. Notes Mail is the best mail client IBM/Lotus can build … using the Notes platform.
3. In an all-Notes shop, having your mail system and your apps so closely and easily linked is extremely convenient, and overshadows the shortcomings of Notes mail. When using Outlook for mail, and Notes for applications, this becomes a problem with varying solutions and with varying success. In a case I know of, adding a few more app platforms (e.g. MOSS2007, Mercury ITG, Oracle Apps) led to the realization that best-of-breed was the way to go, and most Notes apps should be migrated to the company’s new standard systems. Problem is these moves are expensive, complex, and require a much wider set of skills to run and maintain the new landscape than when everything was in Notes.
Just my 2 cents.
I have been using Notes for over 10 years now, and really cannot understand why MS users ‘hate’ the interface. After 20 years in various jobs, I have come to my first company in my career that uses Outlook, and I would like to get them to post on here to tell you how bad it is ( outlook 2003) but you probably wouldnt have enough time to read the comments. I have taught many staff the basics of Domino and Notes, and they are just astounded at what it can do.
I also think that Domino is FAR more stable than Exchange- that is my overiding impression of Outlook- how slow it is, how often it crashes, how limited you are in terms of realistic mailfile sizes( oh just watch Exchange die if you , god forbid, have more than a Gig of email) - it may have a few more very specific, useful mail and calendar features than Notes, but how many Outlook users utilise those functions ?
Am now playing with Notes 8 beta3 as I write, and I think it would do alot to stop MS Outlook users moaning…We all know that Outlook just “wins” the arguement time and time again because people have got used to the MS office family interface. If Smartsuite had been as popular 10 years ago, the arguement might have a different winner.
After years of working in Outlook, I moved to an organization that uses Notes. Hated it from day One for e-mail AND scheduling capabilities. Still hate it after over two years of usage.
I qualify as a high end user, i.e. engineer with lots of computing experience but not a software engineer. It is not a tool for the general user.
The interface is unfriendly to the extreme. Our company CIO also dislikes Notes and would be willing to switch to Outlook if a business case would support it. (Over 100,000 employees).
I just cannot believe the results of the above mini-survey and how many people seem to give preference to Notes vs Outlook. It sounds unbelievable, especially as apparently only a single-digit% of users use Notes. Outlook is much better for searching and finding, referencing and archiving your emails by date, subject, keyword. It looks better and it serves better. Creating complex searching is much more user-friendly. Filtering your emails based on multiple criteria - much better in Outlook. Archiving and/or deleting Sent items is done simpler and quicker in Outlook. Forwarding and amending attachements is also much easier in Outlook. Adding email addresses to your address book direclty from received emails was much easier in Outlook (not just one sender but multiple emails). Also creating mail rules that apply to all subfolders (not just inbox). Calendar also looks better and works better in Outlook. Just about everything was faster and better in Outlook. - That is my experience and I know many who share the same opinion.
I have been using Lotus Notes for 8 years, and I personally think it is the ugliest piece of crap I have ever witnessed. I would rather use Novell Groupwise 3 again than any version of Notes. It is ugly and non user-friendly. I can’t find one thing logical about it. Outlook is far superior in mail handling, setup, organization, and just simply, over all ease of use. I agree with an above comment however, if you are a Notes shop, keep it, if you are not, lose it! There is no integration to Sharepoint Services/Server 2003, and 2007. Oh sure, you can view multiple calendars, but not side by side! Simply, Lotus is like Mac, it is intended for specific target, and should be left at that. It is junk! And IBM should slap themselves for putting such crap out for sale!
Sorry Notes 7.x People….I hate it. I’ve worked with Outlook for many years and a year ago I took a new job at a place where they use Notes. I thought it would just take time getting use to it. Nope. It’s a year later and overall I’m less efficient as an employee. It has continuing issues and is less intuitive than Outlook. If I worked as well as Notes, I would be fired. I absolutely hate it. I can’t believe some people actually like this piece of crap.
Yes, I can believe the results of this survey. I’ve used both Notes and Outlook. The problem, I believe, is the people are so ingrained in what they’ve learned to be their first email application and have an affection towards it that never ceases.
I’ve worked in IT for over 8 years at different firms, (some used Notes and, other Outlook) and the one thing I’ve noticed about Outlook is that it is email on training wheels. It is for definitely for the “People/American Idol” crowd, not so much for the “Fortune/West Wing” crowd. It is so feature poor as compared to Notes. In Outlook shops you have to shell out additional money to Microsoft to buy products like Sharepoint and other MS software that is essentially bundled with a full Notes suite.
However, in staying with the “email/calendar” only theme, if you want some additional features (like having a recurring meeting fall on a weekday) in Outlook, you have to BUY a plug-in from a 3rd party provider. I don’t want to have to buy additional software. I want it already build in (as in Notes).
What I can’t believe is how many people actually like Outlook that have used both. I’ve never found Notes to be user-unfriendly, but Outlook is like other MS programs where you have to go through 3 sub-option windows to get to the option you want to change. If you like complicated, then, yes Outlook is for you. For me, long live Notes!
Personally, I wish there was a list of Fortune 500 companies and what they use. This way all the Outlook lovers can work at those shops and the Notes lovers can work at their shops.
I believe the ugliness of the Notes UI has already been brought up. Outlook is like looking at a scenic wooded landscape in the spring, while Notes is like staring out the window of an apartment in Brooklyn. That is enough to make your work day feel longer and more depressing. I really wish they would allow me to use Outlook at work. Between Notes and our Oracle interface, I fell like I am still using a Windows 95 box.
More important though is usability. One of my biggest pet peeves with Notes is the darn spell checker. I hate the fact that it will only inform me of my misspellings when I click the spell check button, or when I hit “send”. I now just keep a Word window open and compose my messages there. Then I can copy and paste it into the Notes editor. It is a pain, but not as bad as having to click “skip” on every acronym, serial number, or part number that I have to type in.
Secondly, we do use a lot of Notes databases where I work. I am glad I do not have to design and update those non-relational pieces of garbage. Any way, why is it when I am in a database and I need to add comments, I get a separate window to type them in? Oh wait, I guess it’s not completely “separate”, because I cannot do anything else while that window is open. If I need to go back to an email for some tidbit of info to paste into it, I have to close the edit window, go copy the info and then reopen the edit window to paste it.
That brings up Notes inability to multitask. When a particularly large database is opening or you start a search, all work stops until that is done. I learned a long time ago to open every database I might need when I first login. In the 20-45 seconds it takes to open, and search some of our databases, I could be doing something more valuable than staring at an hour glass. Not a very efficient platform to be building your common tools with that is for sure.
There is one more thing that upsets me about Notes, I have a huge list that has been growing over the past couple of years, but I’ll make this the last one I list tonight. Why is it that you have to go and select an email address and make it a hot spot and add the “emailto:” tag to it to make it clickable? I can send a URL to another coworker and it becomes a clickable link when it is received, but it does not seem to do that automatically with an email address. Just another thing to help make it slightly more inefficient I guess.
Interesting reading…I did have to laugh at the post about Notes 8 beta 3 and it’s interface will finally stop Outlook users’ complaints. Déjà vu! Heard the same or more exaggerated comments when 4.5 was the standard and 5 was coming out, from 5.5 to 6, from 6.5 to 7, and now another one for the record. I’ve seen it…same ol’ crap…same ol’ inefficiencies…same ol’ inability to multi-task… same ol’ ugliness and garishness. I love how more and more companies/firms etc. are switching to Outlook. Notes horrible compatibility with major DMS infrastructures and the fact that major DMS providers such as Interwoven create Notes interfaces as an afterthought shows the slow (and long overdue…IMHO)demise of Notes. Problem is, it’ll be in the throes of death about as long as COBOL has been on the language side, hasn’t that been agonizing to watch?
And the comment about how great it is to have your e-mail so closely integrated with all your apps; well that’s only IF all your apps are in Notes. IBM doesn’t play well with anyone else: not with MS Office, not with a DMS, not with most web-based apps, and by consequence, not with most of the users in the country. Inter compatibility is important! (winmail.dat)
Ray, your comment about being unable to have Outlook do recurring appointments on Weekdays Only must be with a very outdated version of Outlook. 2003 & 2007 need no 3rd party app…it’s right there. Btw, I have never met a non-techie who likes Notes, and even among techies, Outlook is the preferred choice. And Notes is the choice of Fortune/West Wing crowd?? Please don’t insinuate that people who disagree with you possess a low IQ. (I can’t stand WestWing or American Idol!!) Having consulted with Boeing, Blue Cross, EMI, the State of California, Lockheed, HealthNet, etc., all Outlook shops, with many knowledgeable, tech-savvy users who all despise Notes, it is obvious that the move away from Notes is continuing despite the heartfelt protests of some I.T. personnel who cling to the past like old BetaMax users. With Notes 8 already designed as more of the same, I think IBM has lost it’s chance to halt the downward spiral. I’m sure when 9.0 is being released we’ll all be revisiting these points again, with fewer Notes programmers chiming in.
Notes Client sucks without a doubt. You can’t even use the copy (ctrl+c) function in some areas and it is very dull…
the backend however (Domino) is stable/scalable as it can get, but why can’t IBM design a better front end (client side)???
–
I, like many others am an IT professional who has had the opportunity to spend time with both Outlook and Notes. I have supported Notes for about four years and Outlok for about four years as well.
If this article is about email and email only (as I interpreted the intro) then Outlook wins by a wide margin. Notes is clunky, awkward and boring.
As previosuly noted, the other functionality of each system have merits but have nothing to do with the question asked.
You cannot compare outlook againest lotus notes.Lotus notes is the best
I am an IT Professional and have been in this business for over 8 years. I have worked with both notes and outlook and by far there is no comparision b/w notes and outlook.
Outlook is designed with end users in mind. Notes is like working programing C on notepad instead of using an IDE. Plus I dont understand why IBM can’t spend some time with the end users to comeup with a better UI? The non-user-friendliness of notes and suck a$$ performance and lack of features (that are now available in most web-based email applications such as gmail and new yahoo mail etc) really drives me crazy.
If I were to own a company Outlook will be my choice without a doubt.
My employer recently asked me to for access to my calendar so that management is able to view when I’m available for meetings. I spent a whole day trying to import my appointments from MS Outlook and it was totally a waste of time. Lotus Notes is the worst piece of garbage and is not very user friendly. The fools who wrote this needs to get out in the real world and experience what the end user wants. No wonder our IT department functions like the fools who put this together!
For the first time in my life I used LN at my new client place and I really missed outlook for the first time in my life. There is no ‘ctrl+k’ here. LN will not find me the right mail id for the person. It only remembers last mails you have sent. My org policy delets mails older than 90 days, now I am searching on net and help files to find something equivalent of pst in LN but no luck yet. No doubt LN is faster than outlook in some way, but this doesnt matter at milli second level. I can afford to wait 2 second to open outlook rather than spend a min in finding a mail id. I can’t double click a mail id to see its details. I strongly believe gmail and yahoomail are better than LN based mail system. Always remember, user friendliness is better than server side capabilities.
MSO from 2003 onwards has a simple feature of remembering the mail ids that have been used. Gmail too has it. I had hoped that LN 8 would have it. No luck :(
If you are not connected to a network, MSO would store your mails in the Outbox and send it out as soon as a network was available. In LN you have to save it into drafts and send it out manually!
In MSO, you can choose any of a user’s multiple email addresses to send a mail to. LN allows you to choose only the first one. WHY?????
Didnt the guys at IBM have a chance to look at the competition product? Absolutely amazing!!!
I used both Outlook and Notes for work. Notes is for hiding information and makink work harder and clumsier, Outlook is for efficiency. Notes may have an advantage in strictly regulated environments for highly structured and regulated jobs but only if application development has been done correctly.
I am a IT specailist who has worked with both outlook and Lotus Notes.
I have worked for two of the biggest organisations that use Lotus Notes/Domino and the real pity is they never train their users when the newly arrive , most of these users were outlook users.I guess organisations take it for granted that email is email.
Both these email systems have their advantages and disadvantages.
dear Nash,
as i have read ur opinion about Lotus Notes, I here by come to a nice conclusion dt u havent used the Lotus Notes very deeply. Well, Lotus Notes is a very good tool for emailing to ur friends and to the couligues @work.
Lotus Notes is a very user friendly software for mailing and for designing purpose..
Hi,
I have worked with both in their different version. If we compare email clients ONLY, Outlook is lacking few good features like print protect / ristrict email forward until it’s recent version which is yet to be upgraded in corporate world.
I understand outlook lovers comment where they are coming from since they are use to screens & features of outlook & try to see simillar UI. BUT ALL USERS TAKE SOME TIME TO ADJUST AS WE ALL USE TO LIKE MORE WINDOWS 98 VERSION WHEN XP WAS NEWLY IN THE MARKET & SAME STORY WITH VISTA NOW - PEOPLE PREFER XP OVER VISTA. IT is a matter time takes to get use to it & ACCEPTANCE TO CHANGE.
For Sevendu, if you are going to make statements about a product, please get the facts straight. Lotus Notes since release 4.5 at least would allow you to send msgs disconnected and when connected send immediately. Version 8 does have a recent contacts feature as well similar to MSO and Gmail.
I am wondering if the fight between MSO and Notes will last much longer and we will all be using SAAS for business email.
LN is the worst. We have an IT dept that are true dumb geeks (they are dumb because they do not even know how to spell dumbL). LN notes is not user friendly and it will not allow some e-mails to come thru. IT dept says, get their e-mail address and we will let them thru. Well if you don’t know who it is, how do you tell IT. I hate hate hate Lotus Notes. IBM means Institute for Brainless Morons. But I do like their SmartSuite.
The new version of Lotus Notes 8 is very user friendly. The UI of the “eclipse” version is very much the same as that of Lotus Symphony, which has a “handsome interface” (http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/index.php/taxid;1029261670;pid;4505;pt;1)
I have used MO for most of my working experience. (I’ve used all versions up to last year) I can use it with my eyes closed. The email settings are wonderful! I came over to a new job where they use LN. There was “training” of a sort, but due to a lack of easy keyboard shortcuts (I’m told there are KS, but I still cannot find a list of them nor find what they are, except for F9 to refresh the mail) and a horrible UI, I HATE the email side of it. I rarely use any other features because they are so easy in MO, but difficult to use in LN.
When I did the above survey, the LN question was already submitted, therefore I was unable to actually vote on it. I was only able to vote on the other questions. Curious. Maybe the numbers have to be fixed in order to make LN seem to be the better option? Oh, and I also have an IT background … MO rocks!
uM… is this even a discussion. Email wise any company that uses lotus over outlook is just… well… not a very smart company.
Email wise Outlook is FAR FAR FAR AND AWAY better then lotus.
I have used both and prefer LN. Maybe it’s because my first (non-mainframe) email experience was LN. My biggest pet peeve w/ MSO is that you cannot make a repeating appointment if it doesn’t fit a particular pattern. Drives me bonkers. As a previous poster mentioned, I don’t want to have to buy 3rd party software to do what I should be able to do in MSO (and can do quite easily in LN). And the ‘cool feature’ someone mentioned about MSO remembering emails that have been previously used is a double-edged sword. I still have people coming to me 2 years after we changed our company email addresses. The conversation is always
“I sent an email to you and it bounced back!”
“Did you send it to my NEW address?”
“Of Course. I changed it in my contact list last year”
“Well, you probably got caught up in MSO’s ‘cool feature’ of remembering email addresses…”
Sigh. There are some features of MSO I really like, but all in all, I was much happier w/ LN.
Hi..Ive been using notes since 3 yrs. I belive todays LN 8 is far better than 7 and previous versions. IBM is really investing a lot. I used Outlook too. Its true outlook is user friendly, but as far as business and corporate factors are involved we have no option than using LN. LOTUS NOTES IS BEST.
reply for - Rob @ April 3rd, 2008
Rob, Please stop going out of the track and make reasonable statements. Just because your company’s IT dept sucks, you cant just blame the product. Everybody knows what LN can do. You are not aware about the LN Scope. this product is not for kiddish boys. Dont play with it
Hi….i’ve been using LOno since 2 yrs and has seen Ln6,Ln7 and Ln8, Ln8 looks good to me……
well no exp of outlook so can’t really coment on that product…..Well since i’m a developer of notesapplication … i feel some times the product doesn’t behave well…..but overall the features and capabilties to be explored are quite interesting , well orkflow application can be made on the fly… no comparision……. for Ln8 f5 logout….it should not give transpaency since as some on the shoulder an still read the subject of imp mail.. notes is very good……good for workflow application….also ….. opinion depends on the knowledge u have on the product…
and hoe the programming part is handled by the developers…..
Reply to rob @ 3rd april
i agree…. just coz people have IT degree…they don’t get the authority to write anything they want…. pls give me a break…..lotus notes is far much better product … don’t talk just on mail part of it….lono is great .. it is the best…
As Exchange system administrator , of course I like Exchange more.
I managed Domino server few Years ago and it was nightmare
Dear all,
thanks for your comments. Everybody is free to say a word in free contry.
I have only used Microsoft outlook till date & i like it as it is easy as other microsoft apps. i am heavy user of mail & needs all mails all time for future references. When my .pst file went above 1 gb MSO start crashing. somehow i managed to get the mail & split on archieve but trouble started while searching & so….
Now i am looking for good email app/client which can hold my e-mails & let me do search/sort efficiently. I just use mail function so can’t compare/comment on other issues but the data size is a issue with microsoft outlook.
Regards,
IMO, both are outdated. I’m a notes developer, and I surely miss smart stuff you get to use in pure web apps running off tomcat opr jboss, whether you use MSO or LN. Web-based email, tightly integrated with web-based apps is the way to go.
However, provided you don’t have the choice for an all-web platform, I’d probably go with Notes - neither LN nor MSO are proper choices for private use, so I’m talking strictly enterprise here. With LN, ou can always enhance the standard mail template as it fits your organisation, integrate mail easily with apps running both on Notes and on other platforms, provide UI to parts or full apps running off other platforms, and still keep the integration tight. Even if you invest in tons of additional MS SW (servers, developer tools, various plugins etc.), you need to invest more effort to achieve the same results with MSO. Granted, the resulting UI is shinier with MSO (or was, until Notes 8), but any corporation will go for the cheaper solution, as long as it gets its job done.
I have been using MSO (in different version) more than 10 years in my career life. To be an end-user to manage my boss’ diary, contact database as well as email messaging, MSO is the best and extermely the most user friendly software that I could ever use. I can handle multi-tasking in these areas with multi-window featureS. LN is sucks especially whenever I need to handle massive appointment scheduling for my executives. Under the LN environment, I need to jump thousand times and swop between thousand STUPID tabs to get same tasks done properly. MSO is such a user friendly software which allows its end user to get these tasks done efficiently with ease!!! Saving our time and extra efforts in jumping in-between those STUPID tabs to get info, contact details, email logistics etc. Multi-tasking w/ multi-windows on the same small computer screen is the most awesome features especailly when end users need to compare and keep track those email logistics SIMULTANEOUSLY!!
All-in all, MSO is the BEST!!!
The main purpose of IT development in business world is to enhance employees’ productivities and improve working efficiency & effectiveness. Corporations choose a cheaper solution with LN instead of MSO because of cost saving concern regardless end users’ adaptabilities & usabilities is ABSOULTELY WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!! “A workman must first sharpen his tools if he is to do his work well”(工欲善其事, 必先利其器).
Whenever people think that both MSO & LN can perform almost the same functionality in email messaging & i-calendaring areas, they are actually idiots who just only focus on it’s “so-called” basic functionality without further serious consideration in depth at end-users’ tangible views and evaluate the respective substantial & pragmatic results towards the actual productivities, efficiency & effectiveness results for a corporation’s daily operation.
Whenever people feel that LN can also perform email messaging & i-calendaring well because they are NOT the REAL VOLUME end-users that I can tell!! LN sucks and not allow volume end-user to perform multi-tasking especially for the need to monitor massive email messaging & i-calendaring. LN will ONLY salving the real volume end-users to spend much more unneccessary time on it’s stupid messaging & i-calendaring design. Whilst, MSO can allow the real volume end-users to perform these massive email messaging & i-calendaring tasks with ease in a timely manner because MSO is such a wonderful user friendly software that can help volume end-users to solve all these daily e-operation problems & logistics systematically & smoothly.
“User friendly” attitude is the crucial factor that MSO is far more superior to LN. Needless to explain why MSO occupy the majority market share globally nowadays. I am sure LN will fade out in our technology market in one day.
I just started working with Notes 8, I had always worked with Outlook. I have learned that Notes is so much more, I’m a Linux user and I’m used to working with systems that are not as user friendly as those of Microsoft, but I consider them to be better and much more efficient. MS is for people who don’t want to complicate their lives by learning new stuff, sure it saves them time, but that’s it. The argument has come down to which system is more user friendly because that is the only strong point any Microsoft software has. What about security? I feel my information far more secure in my Notes application. What about capabilities? If your work only consists of getting e-mails and using the calendar then MS is for you, but when you need to work with databases, when you require authorizations, when you want to work even if you’re offline, when you want to locate a co-worker that you don’t know his/her e-mail, when you want a single system to take care of all your organization in a “not so user friendly” but actually very user friendly application. Notes does that and a lot more. I manage my savings in Notes, I check how much I’m gonna get paid, I can share complex databases by just sending a link in an e-mail, I have a business made IM utility, etc.
So sure MS is user-friendly, and in some companies that means productivity. In others you need a much more solid and complete collaborative tool. Depends where you work I guess.
Sorry if I have bad english.
Well, security & capability concerns are really very personal point of views and depends on which area that the role of end user is focusing on it. Can anyone tell and swear that LN is 100% much more secure than MSO? Managing personal savings account seems like a very personal issue that is not expected to be handled through a company gateway! Wondering this is NOT a very professional practise for an executive??!!
Sharing a complex database can be done via some other gateways and systems. Development of a multiple systems is much more secured than just reliable on a so-called single system. Diversity is what most large MNC tends to develope their technology to enhance their productivities, efficiency & effectiveness.
Email - Outlook wins hands down
End user experience - Outlook wins
Ease of use - Outlook wins
Application Databases and back end stability and scalability - Domino wins
But does any end user care of the latter - Absolutely NOT.
At the end of the day the users just want to send an email without having to wait for indexing or updating views or connecting via TCPIP dialogs!
LN is unnecessarily convuluted. The new LN eclispse client is much thinner now and looks more like outlook now but I think IBM is 5 years too late!! it is IBM’s own fault for pushing workplace instead of improving the Notes client UI.
They lost a few valuable years here and tens of thousands of licences.
Not sure how long this downward trend will last but come on..wake up IBM!!!! Invest some money back into Lotus Notes and make it fashionable again!!
I’ve work for companies that uses both MSO & LN.
when it comes to user friendliness, i believe tha MS Outlook wins.
In my current company (btw, it is a fortune 500 company –Fluor Corp) uses Note 6.5.6 because of its database capabilties. RMS, RFI, Querries, and other information sharing were solely done in one application, which is Notes. And another thing why my company uses Notes is because it’s capability to work with SAP R/3. HRIS, Employee management, Knowledge management, Training and related activities etc were done in Notes.
I dont know if Outlook can work with SAP R/3 (btw, SAP is the most comprehensive corporate solution in the world). But I still prefer to use it (MSO), because of its user friendliness. It takes less training to learn MSO compare to Notes.
As an end user, I do not usually do database thing so why would i use Notes.
All in all, both application have advantages and disadvantages.
i’m fairly new to both. my company just switched from ln 6.5 to mso 2007, and while i admit it looks infinitely nicer, (and that preview window is great) i can’t stand using it.
as someone who has dozens of windows open at any given time, having each message open in a new window is a nightmare.
also, since we’ve got office everyone and their hamster has hideous “stationery.” i wish they would stop trying to blind me, it’s bad enough i stare at a computer screen all day.
i loved that in notes i could save internet shortcuts on the side. i haven’t found an equivalent function in mso. why have a built in browser if i can’t save shortcuts? if someone has a solution to this that i just haven’t found yet please let me know.
really just a myriad small things that are bothing me, i never got too far into lotus to use much other than its email. i’ll adjust quickly enough. sadly, our sister company is updating to lotus 8, i’ll just sit here and stew in silent envy.
oh, also, imagine my surprise when i first tried previewing an excel spreadsheet, only to find i couldn’t without first installing a previewer. i call shenanigans!
the debate is which is better e-mail application…so i’ll stick to that.
some say “MSO is this and that…”
others said “But LN can do this and that…”
blah blah blah…
yes, both of them have other capabilities that I am say “nosebleeding” and out of my common task in doing my e-mail.
If you’re going to use the application only for e-mail, choose wise. Buy the cheaper application (either Outlook or Notes) that can perform your e-mailing task (well, as long as is does what you want)
My point is, why pay for the feature that you do will never use (as an end user)
I work for IBM providing technical support to a client. The users are mostly engineers and their support staff. They use Lotus Notes. Lotus Notes keeps me employed.
No matter what opinions people may hold on Lotus Notes’ suitability for the general public my statistics are clear. I deal mostly with fairly intelligent educated people and very very few of them have a handle on how to use Lotus Notes effectively. Anytime I receive a ticket to help somebody with archiving I know I’m in deep.
After you forgive the 1995 UI, and the inability to multi-task, and the convoluted nature of anything higher level than reading a new email, and the frequent stalls, and then learn how to set it up properly, and how to keep it running properly, and how to fix the common issues, it is a very stable (I’ve never had it actually crash, it just gets distracted) and robust application. It is now, however, a suitable application for very many people. It requires training and patience to use properly, and for these reasons is not a good modern application.
I admit that Lotus Notes/Domino has a lot to offer, but I think these offerings should be relegated to their ideas and given a brand new practical beginning.
MS Outlook is an email and calendaring application.
Notes is a database platform that happens to do email and calendaring.
My company is switching from Notes to Outlook, and I can’t wait.
I believe it is possible to create powerful database applications in Notes, but the ones created by my employer look like someone dumped a bunch of documents in a barrel and called it a database. Most of them die from lack of use, and seem to be nothing more than repositories of obsolete information.
i have used MSO for years and now i changed my job and we use LN now..
i completely agree that MSO is very much user friendly, easy to sort, easy to maintain contacts etc..
but when i saw the capabilities of LN, i understand the above posts, saying LN is having database capabilities, such as working with SAP… but IBM has to work harder to make end users happy, not just the corporate methods…
Vigyan
http://www.mokean.com
In terms of user friendliness and support Lotus notes sucks big-time. The database aspect of LN is loosing its charm now in an enterprise environment as SAP/Oracle type workflow managers are replacing Lotus based databases.
Outlook is far superior for user friendliness when it comes to emails/calendar sync with handhelds/portable devices etc…! Thats what i call productivity boost….!
Having used Notes/Domino in different forms since 1995, both as admin, developer and end user I can only say this: Notes sucks. It really does.
While it may be (or is, in fact) a nice platform for writing mail-enabled apps (”databases”) with extremely nice replication (so long as there are no replication conflicts) it’s still just a database platform with mail functionality.
90-or something percent of a normal office users work day is probably in the e-mail app or in some kind of office app (word etc). Why should he/she then be forced to spend that time in a subpar e-mail application that’s badly integrated with MS Office just because it’s a great database system?
Personally, I have two REALLY BIG issues with Notes/Domino:
1. It sucks for e-mail and document collaboration compared to a Outlook/Exchange/Office/(Sharepoint) environment. Last time I checked, if I had a document database in Notes and wanted to change a document, I had to load it in Word, save it in my temp folder and then re-import it over the old document in the Notes client. With Outlook/Sharepoint I just press Save…
And another thing, if I start to write the name of someone I’ve previously mailed in Outlook, I get a neat list of suggestions - perfect if I don’t remember the exact address. I’v never seen Notes do that.
2. Lotus Notes is a GIANT CORNER that you paint yourself into. Once you’ve started doing databases and stuff in Notes/Domino, you have to continue down that path. Should you one day need something that would work better in some other system, it’s a real pain to get anything useful out of a Notes “database” programmatically, as opposed to if you had built your systems around a REAL database (SQL) in the first place.
(Oh, and don’t get me started on the user.id crap, sometimes making it impossible to logon from a borrows computer. Or the webmail interface. Or the (lack of) integration with Windows Mobile phones. Or the you-need-to-restart-your-computer-before-launching-notes-again crashes. Or…)
Notes does not shut! I have to manually shut it using Ctrl-Alt-Delete.
Also, no-one should bother with email systems installed on pc’s anymore. Gmail offers unlimited storage capacity, a user-friendly interface, a calender, document editing and all of that for free.
Offline applications for this type of thing are a thing of the past. As are both Microsoft and IBM for that matter.
I took this survey and could not believe the results. First, let me say that I am a simple email user. I read my emails, I maintain my contacts and I use my calendar. I have used Outlook for several years and for the past year have been trying to adapt to Notes (8.0). To out it simply, it is the worst possible email application I experienced. I also use Yahoo mail, which is free and prefer it to Notes. Try searching your emails and determining what folder they have been saved in. Try sending an email to an alternate email address for someone, search an email for selected text. Yes, it is possible (I believe), but I feel like I am writing some foreign language/ logic program and thus avoid it when possible.
In talking with people, they brag about its database utility. So what, I don’t care one bit about a database utility. I just want to read email, save email, maintain contacts, and use the calendar function. I don’t like the fact that Microsoft dominates the PC market the way it does. However, when I see the alternative, then I am willing to accept it. As I said, I would rather use Yahoo Mail than Notes. If I were to ever change jobs again, that will be one of the questions I ask when interviewing - what email server do you use. Communication in an organization is extremely important. From what I have experienced so far, Notes make communication more difficult.
Lastly, I would like to say that I am thankful that I took the time to write this email. Having thought it through, I believe a possible solution to some of the problems I have with notes will be to print soft copies of all my emails and file them outside of Notes. This will at least make finding them and organizing them easier. While it does not solve all the problems, it is a start.
I definitely agree to the fact that MSO is much More user friendly compare to LN.But remember its not just an emil client, you can access customized or deafult applications and inetgrated instant messenger. It also has integrated browser, I doubt if anybody even in IBM uses this.This argument is very similar to the argument of using windows versus Linux. In LN you have all the features even more than what you have in outlook. Its just that it requires bit more learning than Outlook.I have recently used Lotus Symphony,it meets most of my requirments. Tell me why should I use this when I have MS office. Its not about developing an application, but about promoting it. I doubt hardly anyone in IBM might have switched from Office to Symphony. In india, I know you just can’t promote Symphony because MS office (pirated) also is free. When you get all the features free (Office) why to settle for less features (Symphony) and do new learning. If you really want to implement symphony, go back to IBM and stop MS office completely. (lol .. u just can’t do that, I know u might have tried that). I also think its hard o implement LN or symphony in US because they just wanted to focus on their deliverables rather than learning technology. They are bit lazy and would like to see everything automated. So user interface is more important for US users.
Good Luck
To add more about the user interface in LN, many users asked me how to do a password change in LN. User will never go to help, they’ll just click under the menus and see if they can find any option related to password change. They’l never realize that the password reset can be found under File> Security. To complicate further, Even after clicking on change password it again prompt for current password, user will be expecting a window to enter new password when they click on change password. You have already asked for password to logon to lotus notes and when clicked on User Security. It means that you have to enter your password thrice to change it.these are small things, but makes lot of difference.
moving on to archive. user will expect the option right under file menu. If you can keep File> New > Archive that would be great.
Do this exercise to find out why users feel that LN is not user friendly.
Approach 10 MSO users and LN users.
Ask them to change the password.
Ask them to set up archive.
See the percentage and find ut why they found it difficult.
I have used all version starting 5.0 till 8.5. There was a huge difference between the interface of 5.0 and 6.x. 6.x and 7.x looks the same. Then huge difference between 7.x and 8.x. remember end users are not there to do doctorate in Lotus notes, but to use the basic functionality.
while I was writing the above comments, I was thinking about adding signature.
I was using Notes 7.x earlier, so I look for preferences on action bar. not found.
Then I cheked file> Preferences, not found there. So I thought I will find it under tools menu, not found. Then I went to help and found that its in action bar under more. End user will not try the last step of going to the help menu. They will just get frustrated. This is what happens. If someone asks me where is the signature option, I will say under preferences. User will click on file and go under preferences, not found. user is upset. See how much confussion the duplicate terminology makes. If someone ask me how to create a rule, I will say check under Tools, user will click on tools menu. again confussion. This is what makes notes a difficult tool to use. You have duplication of terminologies, option in multiple places.
Another instance, if someone ask me thow to create a replica, I will ask them to right cick on database icon> replication> new replica. Next time user wants to do the same, someone else will say click on File> Replication> New Replica. From user perspective, this is not what he is done last time. Option in mutiple places helps but it also make the users confuse.
Discussion is fantasic. I learnt a lot about both mail client. I am working as IT support engineer from 2 years. I am supporting both LN and outlook from last two years. I feel LN is good compared to outlook. Here people may be saying UI and many more. But companies who have employed these users also thinks about data security, infrastructure stability and less investment, more outcome. In all these way IBM Lotus notes is far better than Outlook.
I am quite amused at the heading of this thread.
Firstly Lotus Notes is more than a simple email system unlike Outlook. To compare them as such is quite amusing and is like comparing apples and oranges, nevertheless, comparisons are and will continue to be made.
Personally, I use Lotus Notes day to day (although the company I am working for are look at MS Migration) and think it has both strengths and weaknesses. I also firmly believe that it is by far the superior of the two for an enterprise environment but then again as pro Notes/Domino I would say that.
I’ve heard many Senior Managers claim Outlook is better since it is what people use at home and will adjust better to it when in the working environment, well, I say to them get real. If you wish to adopt a mail system within the enterprise that is used by 90% of home users then go for gmail or similar because wake-up call guys that’s what most people use at home.
My personal belief is that if your company has invested in MS Technology (at no doubt a considerable cost) then why would you look to invest in Lotus Notes as an email tool? Likewise if you are a Domino shop then why waste a considerable amount of capital, especially so in the current climate, upgrading your servers and infrastructure to simply implement a mail tool which if you look at the bigger picture contains much less functionality than that of Domino, i.e what about the workflow capability, collaboration capability, data replication offline, DOLS, etc… Oh that’s right Sharepoint offers collaboration. Have you used it in a real environment? Yes it does the job, does it do it better than Domino?
Well, that’s a matter of opinion, personally, I don’t think so…I also use Sharepoint day to day and one of my biggest pet hates is that it does not allow ‘&’ in the file name of a document library when uploading…do you realise how painful that is especially when uploading [old] documentation whereby most people use an ‘&’ in the file name (even today).
Just some thoughts.
I have been using Notes for 6 years now and would love it if our company changed to outlook. The fact that outlook functionality is far more user friendly makes me want to desperately change. Lotus is a dog of a system and even the ‘work-flows’ are shite.
If you look beyond the mail tool to IBM’s effort of Quickr…wow, now there’s a piece of crap. IBM have a joke of development department that should be sacked, as their tools are the quality that my 12year old nephew could produce.
I hate Microsoft as a whole, but, unfortunately, but I say! bring on Outlook / sharepoint!!
I am working as an administrator supporting both Notes and Outlook from last 3 years. Outlook still has problem when it comes to archiving, where-in it archives WRT to date of email modified rather than received. Users usually create archive folders based on the time period of mail received like Jan to Apr in 1 folder, by which some mails are misplaced after archiving in Outlook. Exchange also has problem in restoring database which requires a lot of time when a single mailbox is corrupted, where-in in domino a copy paste of a single mail file would do the job. PST files of size >3GB gets corrupted quite often and need to use 3rd party tools to recover them.
In using notes the error I hate the most is “NSD IS RUNNING”, this error is resolved some times by Reboot, Reinstall, Reconfigure and the worst case Reformat . No idea what is the proper solution to resolve this notes client error.
Fuck me - the average person on this site must be thicker than pig shit…
Lotus notes sucks total arse - it is the worst piece of shit to have ever been written (well aside from the fucking disaster that is subversion)…
How the majority of people could prefer to use notes is beyond me…but then again I am significantly smarter than the fuckwits who voted for notes…
Lotus notes is times better than shit outlook….
been using notes for 10 years, outlook for 1 year plus. Trying to like outlook, so far, it is ok (at least I dont need to reboot when outlook crash or hang).
But miss the following feature of notes:
1. Section : User can choose to expand only relevant detail they are interested. No need to scroll up and down which tend to make me lose focus.
2. Tab display of Table : good way present info to user without the need for them to scroll up and down to see header message table details.
3. Customise Button (with such button, i can easily get Seniour Management sign off and auto file it onto my document repository server which accept email filing)
I am very disappointed with outlook as it will require VBA programming to achieve that. In Notes, any idiot can do it.
1. Notes has Recent Contacts which stores email addresses that auto populate as you type.
2. ID is an excellent way to keep not only mail secure but your databases.
3. iNotes is usable on webmail enabled phones depending on the security of your firewall
4. iNotes has a unique interface for the iPhone
5. Notes databases can be as large as 64GB
6. Notes is much more secure than any Outlook\Exchange environment
I am very happy to know about Microsoft and IBM are both developing new non related Enterprise 2.0 stuff
I’m an IT professional (though not a developer).
I also have been using both Notes and Outlook in business for many years, and there is only one possible result:
Lotus Notes is the worst crap that has ever been programmed on this planet.
It costs me all my nerves every single day in the office, as my current company unfortunately uses it.
Sorry IBM guys, but you just can’t do it.
Outlook is great if all you do is email and calendar. We run an entire company ($50Mil) on top of Notes and Domino including payroll, sales systems, expenses, payables, invoicing, financials, contracts, portal, helpdesk, managed services…etc. Outlook is very useful in limited scope but it’s a child’s toy in comparison to Notes/Domino.